Dorothy Ruth West : RIP

[Angela Woodford]

Sorry, why on earth would you not call it an altar as that is what it is?

It is in a Church of England, therefore it is an altar no matter what it is called in a Baptist, Methodist or whatever church.

Hi Mary!

Definitely not an altar in the wonderful world of C of E evangelical, where I was raised!

Coincidentally, here by the computer is the "History of St Stephen's, Clapham Park" where I was christened, written in the 60's, and sent to me the other day by an old friend. Referring to renovations -

"The Communion Table was at one time covered with an ornate red and gilt cloth, and gave the appearance of being an "altar"! A frontal, worked by Miss Daisy Tull was used which bore the monpgram I H S, and a crown (perhaps alluding to the Greek "stephanos" meaning "crown"). The PCC agreed that this situation should no longer apply, and the present plain Communion Table is a result".

I was always taught that "altar" was positively idolatrous! Any wordly activity on the Lord's Day strongly discouraged. Cards - the Devil's Playthings! I could go on and on, but off-thread - sorry.

Love

Munch

[englishangel]

Strange, I was brought up Evangelical Baptist and Baptists have the pulpit centre front with the communion table in front of that, but I always thought that in the C of E it was an altar, though I can see the point.

[jtaylor]

Why do people get SO hung-up on words! Surely it's the INTENT of the word which is important?

It's a bit like the PC approach to "brainstorming" - this term has been around for years, before it was hijacked by someone looking for a term to refer to epilptic episode.

Altar has always been the think on which communion is celebrated, regardless of the adornments, materials etc. etc.
BUT, the altar was a sacrificial place in history? I know what I mean by it....

J

[kerrensimmonds]

I'm sure DR would be amused to see this discussion thread!

[Angela Woodford]

I'm sure DR would be amused to see this discussion thread!

Expect she would, Kerren! Having been brought up rigidly Evangelical and Fundamentalist, I quite appreciated the more formal CH approach. I thought the chapel altar lovely.

I've often wondered if Old Girls have felt particularly influenced by the religious aspects of our education? For me, a wonderful break from evangelical pressure. The work in the Choir afforded a glimpse of a different spirituality.

My happy memory of DR is when, suffering from the dire consequences of eating bouillabaisse on the school trip to Narbonne, I accepted a swig of brandy from her hip flask. Nearly choked on the stuff. How she laughed.

I should like to attend the funeral, and will work out how to get there. Train?

Love to all

Munch

[Alexandra Thrift]

I've often wondered if Old Girls have felt particularly influenced by the religious aspects of our education? For me, a wonderful break from evangelical pressure. The work in the Choir afforded a glimpse of a different spirituality.

Hi Munch,

It was lovely to see you ( and Kerren,Elaine,Valerie,Margaret and Linden! ) at Cathy Ennis' recital at QEH.

The school was still pretty religious Munch but I agree about the formality of the C of E and how liberating that can feel.

Nobody turned a hair that we used to sit in with Jasmin Ansar ( at her invitation ) when she faced Mecca ,unfurled her mat and recited her prayers in urdu in the Laundry Room . I bet you didn't tell your Mum about that !

I do remember that when we finally stopped wearing chapel caps I was a little apprehensive when entering the chapel bare-headed, that a "rushing wind","pillar of fire" or some other manifestation of the almighty's disapproval might manifest !

I'm sure DR would love the idea of us discussing religion on this thread.My class had many an RE lesson with her and I think it was the subject she preferred to teach ( not including cricket).

I will try and make it to the funeral ( if I can get the time off work).

[kerrensimmonds]

You are right about Cricket, Alexandra.
If I am asked to make any sort of delivery at the funeral or Memorial Service (now agreed at the first stage... details to follow) I shall make the point that 94 is not a bad innings for a cricketer!
In retirement after CH, DR was the Umpire for the local cricket team in Alfriston, and when she retired from that post they presented her with a very professionally made wooden little 'edifice' of a cricket crease with a set of stumps and bails at one and, and a hand with a pointing finger at the other. If you activated it, the finger raised one end and the bails fell off the other end. I wonder what happened to it? It had pride of place on her windowsill in the bungalow in Alfriston.
I maintain that if as many OG's as possible could attend the funeral, that would be a great testament to her. We did not all have supremely happy schooldays but with the benefit of hindsight and mature reflection I, for, one, can see how she influenced and guided what subsequently became of my life. And in adult life I had the privilege of getting to know her all over again, and found a very different (humane and self effacing) persona from the 'battleship in full sail', which is how my father dubbed her when I was at school!
Kerren

[Angela Woodford]

Hi Alex!

Did so enjoy meeting you all at the Recital. And I'm particularly grateful to you for pointing out that for much of the performance I was earnestly scrutinising the wrong pages of the programme...!

The school was still pretty religious Munch but I agree about the formality of the C of E and how liberating that can feel.

Nobody turned a hair that we used to sit in with Jasmin Ansar ( at her invitation ) when she faced Mecca ,unfurled her mat and recited her prayers in urdu in the Laundry Room . I bet you didn't tell your Mum about that !

Allah did answer Jasmin's prayer in that she was accepted into the Robin Patrol of the CH Guides. (Captain: Judy Evans.) Result! My mother didn't mind the sitting in on Jasmin's prayers! With typical Evangelical fervour, she felt that Jasmin,whilst in a Christian environment, would be bound to Accept the Lord Jesus Into Her Heart eventually. I'm afraid that my mother was roused to fury and tearfulness by the Theory of Evolution of the Species and Roman Catholicism. Lots more too, but don't want to upset anybody with such a politically incorrect maternal voice from the past.


I'm sure DR would love the idea of us discussing religion on this thread.My class had many an RE lesson with her and I think it was the subject she preferred to teach ( not including cricket).I will try and make it to the funeral ( if I can get the time off work).

I remember when Julie Howlett asked DR during Scripture about Circumcision. DR's knowledge of male anatomy was faultless.

It would be lovely if you can attend the funeral.

Love

Munch

[midget]

Hi Alex!

Did so enjoy meeting you all at the Recital. And I'm particularly grateful to you for pointing out that for much of the performance I was earnestly scrutinising the wrong pages of the programme...!

The school was still pretty religious Munch but I agree about the formality of the C of E and how liberating that can feel.

Nobody turned a hair that we used to sit in with Jasmin Ansar ( at her invitation ) when she faced Mecca ,unfurled her mat and recited her prayers in urdu in the Laundry Room . I bet you didn't tell your Mum about that !

Allah did answer Jasmin's prayer in that she was accepted into the Robin Patrol of the CH Guides. (Captain: Judy Evans.) Result! My mother didn't mind the sitting in on Jasmin's prayers! With typical Evangelical fervour, she felt that Jasmin,whilst in a Christian environment, would be bound to Accept the Lord Jesus Into Her Heart eventually. I'm afraid that my mother was roused to fury and tearfulness by the Theory of Evolution of the Species and Roman Catholicism. Lots more too, but don't want to upset anybody with such a politically incorrect maternal voice from the past.


I'm sure DR would love the idea of us discussing religion on this thread.My class had many an RE lesson with her and I think it was the subject she preferred to teach ( not including cricket).I will try and make it to the funeral ( if I can get the time off work).

I remember when Julie Howlett asked DR during Scripture about Circumcision. DR's knowledge of male anatomy was faultless.

It would be lovely if you can attend the funeral.

Love

Munch

Before DR had become the mild woman that she obviously did, in about1947/48, when asked about circumcision she told Sybil Buckmaster (I think) to see her later.
Maggie

[Angela Woodford]

Maggie!

Mild-mannered?

Well not exactly,as I remember in 1964 - 71. It was The CH System - being separate from the Real World that I remember particularly. I don't feel that DR prepared us for the Real World. She seemed to concentrate on the academically promising ones of us -

There was a post from Rosemarie (Gaye Linskill) that I remember from a while ago which stated so precisely how she felt on entering the Real World (relationships) after CH. I so agree.

Imagine a one-to-one with DR on circumcision!!!

Does anyone remember lining up in that Ante-room with Miss Gamble? Enough to scramble the brain of everything!

Love

Munch

[englishangel]

Maggie!

Mild-mannered?

Well not exactly,as I remember in 1964 - 71. It was The CH System - being separate from the Real World that I remember particularly. I don't feel that DR prepared us for the Real World. She seemed to concentrate on the academically promising ones of us -

There was a post from Rosemarie (Gaye Linskill) that I remember from a while ago which stated so precisely how she felt on entering the Real World (relationships) after CH. I so agree.

Imagine a one-to-one with DR on circumcision!!! No thanks

Does anyone remember lining up in that Ante-room with Miss Gamble? Enough to scramble the brain of everything?

No, (brain obviously very scrambled) what was that about?

Love

Munch

ps I think Maggie was being ironic.

[midget]

Not particularly, Mary- the way people who knew her closer to retirement, and one of the pictures posted on another threat she seems nothiong like the warrior woman she was at the start of her tenure. It could be that she had only been at Hertford 2 years when I started there, and she wanted to impose her own pesonality on the place. Miss Gamble was a real dragon.
Maggie

[Katharine]

Miss Gamble was not really a dragon if you worked with her, but it wasn't until I was a Headmistress's Mon that I saw that side of her. However I will never foget one incident, when I was going to Oxford for possibly one of the most important interviews of my life, she said to me 'Katharine, you smile too much, remember not to smile while you are at Oxford'. I ignored her, and got the place!

Inidentally, after one of my Inner Wheel talks last month, the lady giving the Vote of Thanks said that one of the most memorable things about me was my radiant smile, and enthusiasm for Inner Wheel. I remembered Miss Gamble then!

[sejintenej]

she said to me 'Katharine, you smile too much, remember not to smile while you are at Oxford'. I ignored her, and got the place!

Inidentally, after one of my Inner Wheel talks last month, the lady giving the Vote of Thanks said that one of the most memorable things about me was my radiant smile, and enthusiasm for Inner Wheel. I remembered Miss Gamble then!

Yes, people can be wrong. I was brought up (part of the time and at a distance) by a retired stockbroker. His one real bit of advice was never to invest in the stock market. 50 years later (6 years ago) and long after his death I broke his rule and have not looked back.

I now understand why he gave that advice and can take appropriate steps. I suspect that there was a good reason behind that advice about smiling which she failed to tell you (and don't forget that a lot changed between the time she was a late teen and when you were).
For our younger readers, I suggest you try to understand why advice is given and not take it too literally. Enthusiasm is different and can show through any other apparent emotion.

[Angela Woodford]

'Katharine, you smile too much, remember not to smile while you are at Oxford'. I ignored her, and got the place!

Miss Gamble was possibly the most miserable and uncommunicative of secretaries. Telling you you smiled too much! Sometimes. waiting in line to see DR, I'd look at that face, set in impassive mode. typing away, and wonder whatever could have happened to her to make her like that...


For our younger readers, I suggest you try to understand why advice is given and not take it too literally.

But things do stick in your mind, don't they? And coming from a source like Miss Gamble! Sejintenej, if you'd ever seen her, you'd understand!

About to do things to a turkey -

Munch